Last night, we had an issue. We heard someone screaming outside around midnight. It sounded like they were in distress. The girls woke up because of it. I was still up and could tell it was coming from outside. I was afraid of what I might find out there. I was afraid that if there was an attacker, they may still be there. I thought of the Kitty Genovese story and knew I had to help. So, I woke up Jason. He heard it, too. We looked out the windows, but didn't see anything.
Now, I should tell you, twenty years ago, someone was murdered in the field across the street from my parents' nice upper middle class suburban house. So, when I hear screaming outside in the middle of the night, I don't take it lightly.
We decided to call the police. They didn't find anything and I think they thought I was a bit crazy. Oh well, I was glad no one was laying dead outside my window.
The girls were scared and couldn't sleep, so we asked Jason to sleep in Piper's bed and the girls and I had a little slumber party in my bed.
This morning, I woke up at 5:29 am to the sound of screaming. Our neighbors' sons had a sleepover guest.
J is ten. The first time I heard of him was that he was beating another kid up like a grown man would, kicking and punching, spitting and grunting and not letting up. While his mother sat calmly on a bench a few feet away, completely ignoring the scene, although the person that told me about it was certain she could see it and chatting with another mother, who had her back to the scene. When the person who told me about this went over and said something, the other mother gasped and J's mom turned and said, "Now stop it, J," and then tried to resume her conversation, even though J had not stopped kicking the kid on the ground. The person who told me the story and the woman J's mom was speaking with, went over and broke up the fight.
The next time I heard of J was that he was at a bowling party and started beating the crud out of a kid and had to be pulled off the kid.
The last time I saw J was at a performance of a high school play in town. His mom was turned around in her seat chatting with someone before the play started. J and his younger brother were pulling each other's hair and slapping each other, which the mom was ignoring. Every time the brother went to get away from J, he banged into a very sweet older woman from our church who was sitting beside him. A couple of times, the brother backed away enough and the older woman got punched. Finally, Jason said something to the mom. And she chuckled and said, "Boys will be boys," and went back to her conversation.
"No, you don't understand, he just hit this woman several times," Jason told the mother.
"Oh, I am sure it was an accident. You don't have boys, but this is just how they are."
That infuriated my husband. "I was a boy once," he told her. "You don't know anything about me, but let me tell you, I grew up in Long Beach, California and I saw my fair share of screwed up stuff and I was far from an angel as a kid, but let me tell you, I would NEVER punch a lady or act like your son is acting. It is unacceptable."
The mom gave a little hmphff and went back to her conversation, rolling her eyes at the person she was speaking with, no doubt in regards to my husband.
J and his brother continued to slap and punch, the older woman from church get bumped a few more times, no one else said a word. Thankfully, it stopped when the play began.
Back to this morning: our neighbors have a very nice, big dog. Like our dog, our neighbors' dog is allowed free reign in their fenced-in back yard. Their dog is much younger, stronger and faster than our dog. At about 7:15, J decided to open their fence and shout, "Go get 'em, Boy!" and let the dog out. That was about 4 and a half hours ago. Our neighbors' sons have been running around town trying to find their dog for 4 and a half hours. Our neighbors' have been scouring the town in their cars. I have been out both walking and in my car. My girls and our homeschool neighbors are riding their bikes around looking for Buddy. We have called the police and they are on the lookout.
My neighbor is friends with J's mom and I have no idea what she thinks of the situation, because she has always defended J and said, "yeah, he's a little violent, but he's a good kid." This morning, she told me that she, too, heard J say that and looked out the window and he was standing by the open gate. J's mom came and picked him up, but she did not stay or make J stay to help find Buddy.
I know it is not politically correct to say this. I know that the current politically correct philosophy regarding children is tolerance and acceptance. But we also need to teach our kids appropriate ways to act. We need to be diligent as parents. We need to be observant. If our kids act up, they are told it's not appropriate or acceptable. They are told if it keeps up, we leave or they are grounded. What the heck is wrong with that?
We have gotten too tolerant. Even I, when talking to J's mother remain stoic, I don't voice my opinion against her humor about "boys being boys" and "oh that is just J!"
I understand that certain kids have sensory processing disorder or other things that may make certain situations difficult. I am sorry, but if that is the case, I believe it is up to the parent to either avoid the situation or TO BE THERE for their child if the situation needs to be addressed or can not be avoided. Don't leave the poor kid floundering in that situation.
I am sorry, but parents have a responsibility to their children and if their kids can't act appropriately, the parents need to find a way to deal with it. Oftentimes, I see parents who just don't want to be bothered with what their kids are doing, so they turn a blind eye. Oftentimes, kids can act appropriately if they are told what appropriate is. It is not appropriate to beat someone up and it is not fair to the other child to show tolerance of this. It is not fair to let someone's dog loose and it's not fair to the dog or the dog owners to shrug it off. It is not fair to the older woman sitting next to you to get whacked in the head because boys will be boys.
I am tired of the notion that we can't punish the parents by making them leave a situation because their child acted up. Parents have a responsibility to their children beyond just food and shelter. They have a responsibility to teach them how to act appropriately.
I will be honest. I am not an authoritarian parent. I am a democratic/authoritative parent. There are certain things my girls are responsible for and there are other things that I ask their opinion on: do you want to take this art class? where do you feel like going for dinner? My girls have chosen their own clothes since they were toddlers. I don't dictate. I do allow my children to make decisions for themselves. But I also instruct my kids on what my expectations are, on what being a responsible and polite member of society entails. I let them know what is and is not appropriate behavior.
I believe this without a doubt. We need to respect our kids. Respecting them does not mean letting them get away with punching people by accident. Part of respecting our children is teaching them to act appropriately so that others WANT to be around them, so they know how to interact, how to behave, so they don't get arrested or in trouble with the police or whatever...so they have a chance in life.
I saw this on facebook the other day and it irritated me. Really? The parent thinks it's funny that their kid is smoking right by the No Smoking sign? Really? I am not one for blatant acceptance. I am definitely someone who questions authority and teaches my kids too, but at the same time, there are things that are in place so that other people are not affected. Punching being one of them. Smoking, in my humble opinion, being another. I hate the smell of smoke. I don't like it around my kids or me. It's not good for us to breathe in and I do believe that we non-smokers should have the right to say, we don't want to breathe in harmful chemicals. What about smokers rights, you ask? They are choosing to smoke and can go do it in a section that permits it. Non-smokers have rights too. Parents who think this is funny condone and encourage inappropriate behavior which will lead to more inappropriate behavior.
I work at the public library. When someone says, "Could you please help me find...?" I bend over backwards for them and do everything in my power to get them the material they are looking for. But when someone says, "You have to help me find..." or "Get me..." my back goes up and I do the bare minimum. Sorry. Treat me with kindness and respect and I will do the same for you.
Now, I should tell you, twenty years ago, someone was murdered in the field across the street from my parents' nice upper middle class suburban house. So, when I hear screaming outside in the middle of the night, I don't take it lightly.
We decided to call the police. They didn't find anything and I think they thought I was a bit crazy. Oh well, I was glad no one was laying dead outside my window.
The girls were scared and couldn't sleep, so we asked Jason to sleep in Piper's bed and the girls and I had a little slumber party in my bed.
This morning, I woke up at 5:29 am to the sound of screaming. Our neighbors' sons had a sleepover guest.
J is ten. The first time I heard of him was that he was beating another kid up like a grown man would, kicking and punching, spitting and grunting and not letting up. While his mother sat calmly on a bench a few feet away, completely ignoring the scene, although the person that told me about it was certain she could see it and chatting with another mother, who had her back to the scene. When the person who told me about this went over and said something, the other mother gasped and J's mom turned and said, "Now stop it, J," and then tried to resume her conversation, even though J had not stopped kicking the kid on the ground. The person who told me the story and the woman J's mom was speaking with, went over and broke up the fight.
The next time I heard of J was that he was at a bowling party and started beating the crud out of a kid and had to be pulled off the kid.
The last time I saw J was at a performance of a high school play in town. His mom was turned around in her seat chatting with someone before the play started. J and his younger brother were pulling each other's hair and slapping each other, which the mom was ignoring. Every time the brother went to get away from J, he banged into a very sweet older woman from our church who was sitting beside him. A couple of times, the brother backed away enough and the older woman got punched. Finally, Jason said something to the mom. And she chuckled and said, "Boys will be boys," and went back to her conversation.
"No, you don't understand, he just hit this woman several times," Jason told the mother.
"Oh, I am sure it was an accident. You don't have boys, but this is just how they are."
That infuriated my husband. "I was a boy once," he told her. "You don't know anything about me, but let me tell you, I grew up in Long Beach, California and I saw my fair share of screwed up stuff and I was far from an angel as a kid, but let me tell you, I would NEVER punch a lady or act like your son is acting. It is unacceptable."
The mom gave a little hmphff and went back to her conversation, rolling her eyes at the person she was speaking with, no doubt in regards to my husband.
J and his brother continued to slap and punch, the older woman from church get bumped a few more times, no one else said a word. Thankfully, it stopped when the play began.
Back to this morning: our neighbors have a very nice, big dog. Like our dog, our neighbors' dog is allowed free reign in their fenced-in back yard. Their dog is much younger, stronger and faster than our dog. At about 7:15, J decided to open their fence and shout, "Go get 'em, Boy!" and let the dog out. That was about 4 and a half hours ago. Our neighbors' sons have been running around town trying to find their dog for 4 and a half hours. Our neighbors' have been scouring the town in their cars. I have been out both walking and in my car. My girls and our homeschool neighbors are riding their bikes around looking for Buddy. We have called the police and they are on the lookout.
My neighbor is friends with J's mom and I have no idea what she thinks of the situation, because she has always defended J and said, "yeah, he's a little violent, but he's a good kid." This morning, she told me that she, too, heard J say that and looked out the window and he was standing by the open gate. J's mom came and picked him up, but she did not stay or make J stay to help find Buddy.
I know it is not politically correct to say this. I know that the current politically correct philosophy regarding children is tolerance and acceptance. But we also need to teach our kids appropriate ways to act. We need to be diligent as parents. We need to be observant. If our kids act up, they are told it's not appropriate or acceptable. They are told if it keeps up, we leave or they are grounded. What the heck is wrong with that?
We have gotten too tolerant. Even I, when talking to J's mother remain stoic, I don't voice my opinion against her humor about "boys being boys" and "oh that is just J!"
I understand that certain kids have sensory processing disorder or other things that may make certain situations difficult. I am sorry, but if that is the case, I believe it is up to the parent to either avoid the situation or TO BE THERE for their child if the situation needs to be addressed or can not be avoided. Don't leave the poor kid floundering in that situation.
I am sorry, but parents have a responsibility to their children and if their kids can't act appropriately, the parents need to find a way to deal with it. Oftentimes, I see parents who just don't want to be bothered with what their kids are doing, so they turn a blind eye. Oftentimes, kids can act appropriately if they are told what appropriate is. It is not appropriate to beat someone up and it is not fair to the other child to show tolerance of this. It is not fair to let someone's dog loose and it's not fair to the dog or the dog owners to shrug it off. It is not fair to the older woman sitting next to you to get whacked in the head because boys will be boys.
I am tired of the notion that we can't punish the parents by making them leave a situation because their child acted up. Parents have a responsibility to their children beyond just food and shelter. They have a responsibility to teach them how to act appropriately.
I will be honest. I am not an authoritarian parent. I am a democratic/authoritative parent. There are certain things my girls are responsible for and there are other things that I ask their opinion on: do you want to take this art class? where do you feel like going for dinner? My girls have chosen their own clothes since they were toddlers. I don't dictate. I do allow my children to make decisions for themselves. But I also instruct my kids on what my expectations are, on what being a responsible and polite member of society entails. I let them know what is and is not appropriate behavior.
I believe this without a doubt. We need to respect our kids. Respecting them does not mean letting them get away with punching people by accident. Part of respecting our children is teaching them to act appropriately so that others WANT to be around them, so they know how to interact, how to behave, so they don't get arrested or in trouble with the police or whatever...so they have a chance in life.
By the way, I just have to say this: J is in public school and I think his actions demonstrate a lack of socialization. Socialization is defined as [to make] behave in a way that is socially acceptable by society. I am sorry, but punching people is NOT acceptable in my world.
I saw this on facebook the other day and it irritated me. Really? The parent thinks it's funny that their kid is smoking right by the No Smoking sign? Really? I am not one for blatant acceptance. I am definitely someone who questions authority and teaches my kids too, but at the same time, there are things that are in place so that other people are not affected. Punching being one of them. Smoking, in my humble opinion, being another. I hate the smell of smoke. I don't like it around my kids or me. It's not good for us to breathe in and I do believe that we non-smokers should have the right to say, we don't want to breathe in harmful chemicals. What about smokers rights, you ask? They are choosing to smoke and can go do it in a section that permits it. Non-smokers have rights too. Parents who think this is funny condone and encourage inappropriate behavior which will lead to more inappropriate behavior.
I work at the public library. When someone says, "Could you please help me find...?" I bend over backwards for them and do everything in my power to get them the material they are looking for. But when someone says, "You have to help me find..." or "Get me..." my back goes up and I do the bare minimum. Sorry. Treat me with kindness and respect and I will do the same for you.
I still hear my poor neighbors' sons yelling for their dog :(
We have parents that come in to the library to check facebook for two hours on the public computers. They expect their toddler to sit quietly in the stroller; eventually the kid gets bored and starts yelling and crying. But the parent is too busy on facebook to pay attention. OR, the parent turns the three year old loose and doesn't watch them. We have an unattended children policy, but when I bring the child back and say, "He was climbing the stacks..." or "She was ripping pages out of a book..." these parents look at me with blatant annoyance and irritation. Sorry, we don't run a babysitting service while you check facebook.
There is a general breakdown in our society. In my opinion, it starts with parents not being vigilant, diligent, responsible and respectful of their children and others. Parents lead by example. Parents should tell their children how to act appropriately. Parents should follow through on discipline. Parents need to watch and be there for their kids and have expectations for their children to act appropriately.
Yes. And I speak as the parent of a child who does struggle with acting appropriately in public. I have been known to put the child in timeout in Disneyland. I have been known to force the child into his carseat and leave him in timeout in the car while I sat at the bumper out of his view. We do leave when he can't pull it together. This is how parenting works. There must be consequences and boundaries, and the children are saner with them. Do I get embarrassed or upset at having to deal with the behavior and/or leave? Yes, but this is parenting. It is time to do your job.
ReplyDeleteExactly. This is parenting. My girls act up and there are consequences. My girls don't understand why other kids don't have consequences. Obviously everyone has the right to parent their own way, but it is difficult to explain to your child why they can't do something when they just watched someone else get away with it.
DeleteIt irritated me that my girls and I gave up our morning to help find the neighbor's dog and the kid who let him loose went home and was probably sitting around watching cartoons or swimming or something fun without a care in the wrold. It did not even occur to his mother to stay. I am not sure if we are lucky or not that Jason was at work, because my husband would say something to her. He doesn't mind confrontation. I do. Obviously, I am passive-aggressive and get out my frustration on my blog. lol.
I so agree with you, Theresa. There is definitely a breakdown in our society. We are witnessing the recpercussions of it each and every day. One just has to open a newspaper or turn on the tv to see it. I can't fathom how some parents just don't parent. at. all. It is because of negligence like theirs, that the rest of us get hit with all kinds of regulations and the government trying to control the parenting of our children. My husband has always said that, in most cases, it is the parent who needs "to be smacked" and not the child. Children have to have boundaries set for them and appropriate behavior modeled for them and taught to them. Over and over if need be. It doesn't mean a parent doesn't love or respect their child if they discipline them and teach them right from wrong and enforce it when necessary. It is one of our absolute basic responsibilities as a parent. No one ever said parenting is easy. Many in this generation want children, perhaps, but have absolutely no idea what to do with them. They want others-- their family, their government, their schools to raise them and we are seeing how good a job that is doing each and every day. Very, very sad.
ReplyDeleteIt really irritated me to read about J and how he is permitted to act. Before long, there isn't going to be a chance to stop him. I read once that a child's moral, ethical and behavioral code is pretty much cemented by the time they are 12-13. I shudder at the thought of you telling us in the future that J's mugshot was seen on TV. Will his mother still be saying that "boys will be boys?"
Great post, as usual, friend! Much love to you all! :-)
"It is because of negligence like theirs, that the rest of us get hit with all kinds of regulations and the government trying to control the parenting of our children."
ReplyDeleteExactly. It is infuriating. Part Two of this is how society undervalues motherhood and the ramifications of that. Where we are headed is a long, dark road and I hope we can turn it around before it gets there.
Children who have disorders may have a reason for bad/inappropriate behavior but not an Excuse for it. Part of being a parent with a child who has particular struggles is to never ever accept that it will be a deficiency for the child and that the child cannot be a part of situation. He or she may need guidance, a quiet place to regroup, coaching from a supportive parent and at times they may need to be removed for their own sake but it should never be justification or an excuse for poor behavior. I feel bad for this child who needs more support and guidance than what he is getting from his mother. He will end up being a lonely, resentful, angry person.
ReplyDeleteI so hope the boys find their beloved pet soon....it is getting dark. Please update us....
~Jess
The dog was found 20 miles from here around 6pm yesterday. I am not sure how they found him, Jason saw a neighbor who said they had gone to pick him up. He is in the yard this morning, so I guess it worked out okay.
DeleteI completely agree with you and it's really so nice to hear someone say that a child shouldn't NOT be part of a situation, I think that is totally true, we need to teach kids how to act or what they need to be comfortable in a situation and how to get it. Poor behavior should not be accepted.
GREAT post--thanks for sharing and putting into words the frustration that some on us feel when we find ourselves in the midst of unacceptable behavior (with our own kids, or others). I strive to make the "right" decisions when dealing with my girls' behaviors. Trying not to make scene but swiftly diffusing the "behaviorable bomb"--it doesn't matter if they are being disrectful behavior towards me, their sisters, or something as seemingly "innocent" as bad manners or rude towards others. We give warning, and then follow through with removing them from the situation and then dealing with it at home, in the car, etc. out of public view as to not disrupt anyone else's experience with out unpleasantness. It happens. And letting J continue acting out with half-hearted attempts at correcting him but no real consequences is a slipperty slope. I can't believe his parents didn't expect/require him to stay and help your neighbors look for the dog! I am glad they found the dog, but what if something unfortunate had happened? Would J's answer be "oh well?" While we can't predict another person's behavior (I am so saddened by the Colorado movie theatre incidengt), we CAN help shape our children to become responsible, respectful and sympathetic young adults and pray they carry that with them. It's never too late to start. Not long ago we were at a restaraunt as a family and I was REALLY looking forward to it. We had just sat down, the sniping had begun, and by time we had ordered, it was a circus. They were tired, cranky, one had had a bad day--and when they wouldn't stop, I got annoyed--it was ugly. So my husband politely asked the waitress for "to go" boxes, packed up the meal and we left after explaining WHY (much to the girls' chagrin" we had to leave. It was a quiet ride home; and though it was the right thing to do, I was silently throwing a tantrum of my own for not being able to eat my food freshly prepared and warm! Small price to pay for a very, big lesson--they really haven't come to that point again :)
DeleteGREAT post--thanks for sharing and putting into words the frustration that some on us feel when we find ourselves in the midst of unacceptable behavior (with our own kids, or others). I strive to make the "right" decisions when dealing with my girls' behaviors. Trying not to make scene but swiftly diffusing the "behaviorable bomb"--it doesn't matter if they are being disrectful behavior towards me, their sisters, or something as seemingly "innocent" as bad manners or rude towards others. We give warning, and then follow through with removing them from the situation and then dealing with it at home, in the car, etc. out of public view as to not disrupt anyone else's experience with out unpleasantness. It happens. And letting J continue acting out with half-hearted attempts at correcting him but no real consequences is a slipperty slope. I can't believe his parents didn't expect/require him to stay and help your neighbors look for the dog! I am glad they found the dog, but what if something unfortunate had happened? Would J's answer be "oh well?" While we can't predict another person's behavior (I am so saddened by the Colorado movie theatre incidengt), we CAN help shape our children to become responsible, respectful and sympathetic young adults and pray they carry that with them. It's never too late to start. Not long ago we were at a restaraunt as a family and I was REALLY looking forward to it. We had just sat down, the sniping had begun, and by time we had ordered, it was a circus. They were tired, cranky, one had had a bad day--and when they wouldn't stop, I got annoyed--it was ugly. So my husband politely asked the waitress for "to go" boxes, packed up the meal and we left after explaining WHY (much to the girls' chagrin" we had to leave. It was a quiet ride home; and though it was the right thing to do, I was silently throwing a tantrum of my own for not being able to eat my food freshly prepared and warm! Small price to pay for a very, big lesson--they really haven't come to that point again :)
DeleteAmen, great post! I totally agree. As parents, it is our job to teach our childlren correct principles and behavior. This J kid sounds like a nightmare to have as a neighbor. I am a parent like you, I try to treat me kids with respect and give choices but we also demand appropriate behavior and have standards of conduct. When our then 20-year-old son (in college at the time) lived at home but decided that he did not have to obey house rule and be a decent example to his them 15-year-old brother, he was "invited" to live elsewhere. My home, my rules. I totally agree that our society is in serious decline, in part, because parents are either not willing or not available to do their jobs as parents and that means teaching and requiring appropriate behavior of their children!
ReplyDeleteGood article. Kid's need to be SHOWN how to act appropriately, by seeing their parents' behavior........maybe that's why J acts the way he does, .....maybe his parents are not very considerate either....
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with your closing paragraph! I was so frustrated to read about the situation with J...it always puzzles me and infuriates me as to how parents can NOT see where their responsibilities lie! Also, I totally hear you about library patrons' behavior and how willing I am to go out of my way. Some people can be so darned RUDE!! Such a sense of entitlement and I just don't understand it.
ReplyDeleteI, too, am tired of parents who do not take responsibility for the upbringing of their children. I don't know how many times I have seen children standing in shopping carts, running through stores, darting through parking lots, while their parents totally ignore them. I have also witnessed said children falling out on their heads and having EMT's be called. Or having racks fall on them in the stores, not to mention the children in cars without carseats or seatbelts. I am astonished that more children are not hurt these days. And if we start to discuss children's behavior, well, that's just scary. It seems it is not in style to teach your child to act appropriately in public i.e. church, stores, etc. I just grit my teeth and shake my head...
ReplyDeleteAwesome post...I am going to be a new subscriber here...I've been struggling with this issue lately....my son is a toddler, and it seems as though the people we were "with" when he was a babe...well, time for me to stick to my rules & values for him, even if others act the opposite. It's hard to discipline your child in a way that you feel is necessary when the child right next to you is doing that action; in church nonetheless...it helps to read this from the prespective of a more experienced parent. My, I taught school for 9 yrs prior to having my son, but it's a whole different ball game now.
ReplyDeleteI have to be really careful - I'm not as stoic as you described - If it were my neighbor I'm sure I would have spoken my mind - lol - I'd try to be nice of course, but I've stepped in many times when I've heard children talking to adults nasty. Matter of fact, that is part of what led up to our homeschool decision. I couldn't stand the fact that the school was allowing the students to speak that way to the teachers. The kids are growing up feeling "entitled" to whatever they want - and it better be right now! I also am a mom of 3 boys, so I know how "boys will be boys" more than most. There is nothing but testosterone up in here. My boys are best friends, they they "wack" each other - then best friends - then someone starts a fight- then back to buddies - and that's just the first hour! (they don't really fight quite that much) There is no excuse for standing by and just allowing children to be disruptive - to hurt each other - or other people. You have to love them enough to do something about it. The parents who find it to be too much trouble to teach their children to behave with basic manners are not doing them any favors - and they are sending a message loud and clear to their own children that they don't matter. Very sad - but true! My boys aren't going to stop playing or fighting with each other any time soon, but we will be standing by - directing, instructing, separating, teaching - having them hug, shake hands, and/or pray together - every time we catch it. It's our job! off my soap box now- thanks for the good rant opportunity! ;)
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed your post. I think it deserved a standing ovation. The only way children will learn how to be respectful is if we teach them how.
ReplyDelete